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Cool! My new IDE will be out soon after the update.

BlitzPlus Forums/BlitzPlus Programming/Cool! My new IDE will be out soon after the update.

A Potted Plant(Posted 1+ years ago) #1
My IDE was put on hold because BlitzPlus had no color control for text, and no way to get debug info from blitzcc, but it looks like I'll be able to finish it up.

It's way simpler looking than any other IDE,. It almost looks just like notepad. Of course, it will source-code based libs, so we'll be back to that mode again.

I think the whole source libs idea was really good, and a lot of people really liked it.


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #2
I wish one of you guys doing "Blitz IDEs" would have the foresight to make it open source so people can tailor it to their individual needs.


Red(Posted 1+ years ago) #3
wait update
;)


A Potted Plant(Posted 1+ years ago) #4
While I don't think this will be a commercial venture, I'd like to retain control of the program for possible future plans. I'll consider either moving a significant amount of code to userlibs, which can be customized, or making it open-source.


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #5
NP, unfortunately, one size does not fit all when it comes to IDEs. Currently using the old Visual Liberty BASIC one that I have modified to work with Blitz Plus.


A Potted Plant(Posted 1+ years ago) #6
Here's what i have now. I can't do anything more with it until the next version of B+.
http://www.leadwerks.com/storage/ide.zip

I think what I'll do is use plugins to do all the special tasks that I had before. The IDE would pass the entire source to the plugin, the plugin would make whatever modifications, and then pass the source back.

An example would be a plugin that let you select a color, then inserted the RGB value at the place where the cursor was presently located.


cyberseth(Posted 1+ years ago) #7
I have yet found a Blitz IDE that I liked. They were either lacking essentials, or too complicated (I didn't like BlitzView's way of clicking text ANYWHERE. I prefer to click text past the end of a line and have the cursor jump to where the line ends. Also the "command help" bar was all in German.)

All added features that alter the way you input code from Blitz's native IDE should have an option to turn them off.

All I care about in an IDE is something simple enough as standard one, but with the added bonus of:
- Multiple undo commands
- Some kind of dropdown list, containing all Blitz commands or Fields of a Type, getting shorter as you type more letters. BlitzView had something like this, but it was all in German! And it would be nice to be able to have a dropdown bar for Fields of a Type too, when you type "\" (the equivalent of VB and C++'s ".")
- A Tool menu to perform tasks like tidying up code, auto-indenting the entire code (I can post a function to do this if you want), searching for undefined variables, etc etc

And if it's going to be a free IDE (coz I don't think anyone would get it if it wasn't) I'm sure there's no harm in including the source code (if written in B+) so that other programmers can not only learn from certain parts of code but also improve what you've already done. It would be nice to have it eventually "evolve" into a very functional IDE written by Blitz users, for Blitz users.


Michael Reitzenstein(Posted 1+ years ago) #8
It is the author's choice whether to make his/her work open source. I do not feel that your comments were appropriate Brice as it sounded like you were pressuring halo to release his source, which nobody should ever do.


A Potted Plant(Posted 1+ years ago) #9
Oh yeah, like anyone can pressure me to release code.


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #10
The next version will allow customization with plugins.
Sound good

CShop3 will definitely have a heavy influence on the way some programs are written, especially because i am releasing a major demo with full source.
I wil pick up Cshop when you do. Unlike the old DB days there has not been enough 3D examples for me to really get going with B3D.


Griz(Posted 1+ years ago) #11
I agree with Michael and I don't care if you don't care what I think Brice. You're the one stirring the pot not Michael -- he doesn't deserve your flack.

We're lucky if Halo creates an IDE that some of us like. If he decides not to make it open source, it has NOTHING to do with a lack of foresight. That could have been taken as an insult to all those who have worked long and hard at developing alternative "Blitz IDEs". If you didn't mean it that way you'll need to be more careful with how you word things in the future if you want to avoid this kind of response.

Thanks for your efforts Halo.


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #12
I agree with Michael and I don't care if you don't care what I think Brice. You're the one stirring the pot not Michael
I am not stirring anything, I suggested a "feature" its called "user expandability". The #1 thing missing in the IDEs released so far, which is why they do not have more users. It sounds like Halo had a very good system in mind via the plugins. That will allow people to tailor it to their needs.

If Halo did not want "user feedback" he would not have posted about it. Since he has responded to "user expandability" he obviously thinks its a good idea too.

he doesn't deserve your flack.
When you stick you nose into somebody elses business, you have no right to complain if you get punched in the nose. If he doesn't want flack, he should not try to instigate trouble where it clearly does not exist.


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #13
HALO: This is good, fast and stable.


A Potted Plant(Posted 1+ years ago) #14
I don't care what anyone thinks! I only use you for compatibility testing, and to get an idea of what people think. You are all my testing hoes.


Michael Reitzenstein(Posted 1+ years ago) #15
When you stick you nose into somebody elses business, you have no right to complain if you get punched in the nose. If he doesn't want flack, he should not try to instigate trouble where it clearly does not exist.


You have to understand where I come from. I have seen many people who expect source to be released whenever a project is posted, as if the author somehow owes it to them. I was not attacking you, I was just annoyed that you were sounding like you were getting close to the (completely wrong) attitude that some people take, and if I didn't know you from reading other posts I wouldn't have known that you were not actually thinking that.

Oh yeah, like anyone can pressure me to release code.


Anybody can pressure you to release your code. It is whether or not you actually bow to this pressure that is the issue.


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #16
I have seen many people who expect source to be released whenever a project is posted, as if the author somehow owes it to them.
Same here. I am not one of those ;c) Hopefully you can understand where I am coming from in that I do not like the insinuations of your prior post.

I hate to see people go to the effort of releasing great community tools like IDEs that are really good, but do not meet the individualized needs of the developers. The person who wrote the IDE or tool gets frustrated and often abandons a perfectly good product. Those who "were" using that product then get frustrated at the developer for abandoning it, and there's "bad blood" for all concerned.

In most cases, with a little forsight and planning prior to starrting the ide/tool, if the developer would have implemented a plugin system or other form user expandability, more people would have used the product, and the author of the product would not have become frustrated and dropped the project. If the author did ever drop the product, the user expandability features would allow those using it to continue to use it and tailor it to their needs.

Anybody who was there for DB in the beginning can remember all the "dropped" matrix editors and world editors because the authors got frustrated because not enough people were using them due to being unable to expand them to meet their needs.

I have known Halo on a community basis for several years. If memory serves, I was the first (and possibly only) person to buy the last DB version of Cshop, which was dropped (Halo refunded my $$ so don't think I was cheated) because not enough people were interested. Halo learned lessons from those previous versions and now has had great success with the current version of Cshop and has a dedicated userbase.


Michael Reitzenstein(Posted 1+ years ago) #17

I hate to see people go to the effort of releasing great community tools like IDEs that are really good, but do not meet the individualized needs of the developers. The person who wrote the IDE or tool gets frustrated and often abandons a perfectly good product. Those who "were" using that product then get frustrated at the developer for abandoning it, and there's "bad blood" for all concerned.



I am wary of this in my current project (a Blitz PreProcessor) where dropping of support will mean more for the end user than a change of IDE - it will mean the breaking of code, and so I am releasing full source at no charge to anybody who wants it.

Even though I knew you were not one to bitch about closed source, I read your post three times and could not make out what you were saying to be anything else, but perhaps I should have just kept my conclusions to myself!


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #18
I read your post three times and could not make out what you were saying to be anything else, but perhaps I should have just kept my conclusions to myself!
Sometimes I am in a rush and things don't come out right. No harm done ;c)


Hotcakes(Posted 1+ years ago) #19
[pimp] cyberseth, Protean (www.proteanide.co.uk) allready has those features, except the Tools menu ideas, which could be done via the plugin API anyway. [/pimp]

Of course, it was -supposed- to be released months ago... ;]


Russell(Posted 1+ years ago) #20

I didn't like BlitzView's

Never even tried that, the screenshots scream "Delphi bloat and overhead".



Yeah, I agree. Bloat is bad. But say there, fellow anti-bloater, could you run this little expermiment? Compile this in Blitz and let me know what the file size is:

Graphics 640,480,16
Print "Hello World"
Delay 3000


WOW! 736k! Yeah, bloat is bad ;)

Russell

p.s. the equivalent code in PB compiles to 13k:
InitSprite()
If OpenScreen(640,480,16,"screen")
   StartDrawing(ScreenOutput())
   DrawText("Hello World")
   FlipBuffers()
   StopDrawing()
   Delay(5000)
EndIf

:)


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #21
Last I knew PB only used DirectDraw for 2D games. Bloat is bad.

I prefer the software rendering in Blitz Plus or Jamagic anyday... Nothing worse than having the unnecessary overhead of directdraw. I just do not follow the "bloat because you can" theory of programming.


Russell(Posted 1+ years ago) #22
That's true about PB, but even with a full 2D game, the compile sizes are quite impressive, especially when compared to Blitz.

I, too, prefer the ease of Blitz's syntax, etc. I just wanted to point out, tongue-in-cheek, that Blitz itself is not exactly a tight code compiler. Fast, yes. Small compiles, no. Maybe Max will do the trick? <crosses fingers>. :)

Russell


Blue Steel(Posted 1+ years ago) #23
I just wanted to point out, tongue-in-cheek, that Blitz itself is not exactly a tight code compiler. Fast, yes. Small compiles, no.
I agree, but I look at it this way. I bought Blitz Plus for apps and now that it has the native graphics it meets my needs for apps. Blitz + exes are a tad big, but when you consider Visual BASIC 6 and VC++ 6 both require runtime files to run, Blitz Plus beats both of those hands down when it comes to bloat for apps. Blitz + may not be the smallest , but at least it beats the MS languages ;c) Not to mention its nice not having 2+GB of my hard drive taken up by Visual Studio 6, lol


A Potted Plant(Posted 1+ years ago) #24
I made a fatal mistake in the design of this program.

I used a single TextArea rather than having multiple gadgets. When source tabs are switched, the text area text is just changed to match whatever source is selected. Unfortunately, formatting the source code takes a significant amount of time, and there is a very annoying pause when switching sources. The solution is to use multiple text area gadgets, but this is not terribly easy, due to the way the program is written.


Red(Posted 1+ years ago) #25
a dramatic amount of time

:)

B+ needs a little optimisation